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Shop/Technician licensing
I had one call me awhile back asking for a price to do a fuel pump on a Dodge stratus. The explained that another shop had already diagnosed it. I gave them a quote based on book time and my normal parts margins. I also quoted an hour for diagnostics and explained that I don't rely on other people's diagnostics. Apparently I was. Lower than the other guy cause a couple days later, the car showed up on a hook. The corrosion on the battery terminals was about 4 inches thick. Cleaned terminals and battery prior to testing, and car started right up. No fuel pump needed. Charged an hour and customer was thrilled. Add another loyal customer to the books. Now, I don't have any certs, and neither does my other tech. We push out quality work and I'm sure both of us could pass all the ase tests, but what's the benefit to me besides a patch? Will it make my customers car run better? I've had one ase certified tech work for me since I bought this business, and had to let him go in less than a month. Zero diagnostics ability. To smart to learn because he already had a piece of paper to prove he knew everything. I believe requiring certification or licensing will greatly limit who we have to hire from. On the other hand, requiring a shop to be licensed and subject to inspection would possibly reduce some of the scab shops, while leaving it the owners responsibility to hire qualified techs, certified or not.
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I've always liked the idea of certifications, but I agree that they are not necessary when it comes to doing quality work AND that some guys are basically paper pushing - test taking geniuses that don't have a clue what to do when it comes to diagnostics or having a wrench in their hands.
My general thought on this has always been to rate the repair shop as well as the tech. Say an A-B-C-D rating system. Right smack on the front door would be a white sign with a black letter showing the graded/evaluation of that particular repair shop. Each shop can raise or lower their rating based on the quality of work and equipment as well as their technicians skill levels. The rating system could also dictate the highest labor per hour each rating could charge.
It's not a perfect idea but, this would allow the consumer to decide where they want to go instead of the usual, "I went here, then here, and then over there and nobody knows how to fix my car." If they went to a D shop that has nothing more than a code reader and OUIJA board to diagnose cars they can't blame anybody but themselves for only getting what they paid for.
How do you rate a shop? Simple, we do it. We as in the shop owners and technicians. Or, some sort of secret shopper deal. Take an older tech and give them the task of checking out shops. I personally like the idea of us governing us.
thoughts???
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Ok , I guess I need to clarify myself. I am not advocating for ASE certifications. On the contrary, I think they are a large part of the problem, as is AAI, UTI, MMI, WIO-TECH, ITT TECH and a host of other so called schools that take peoples money and don't provide what was paid for. Thats a whole other tirade for a different post.
What I had in mind was a system that Rhode Island uses to license electricians. It is an associates degree earned through a local accredited school. The person usually goes to night school and has to complete 2000 hours of apprentorship under a licensed electrician. After successfully completing the schooling and the 2000 hours they are awarded a journeyman license. That person has to complete yearly continuing education requirements or lose his license.
If we were to use a system like this , as an employer you would know that the person applying for a job had at least some basic knowledge and experience.
As for shop licensing how about minimum requirements for insurance, required equipment for doing certain repairs and minimum schooling for the techs that work there.
These are some of the basic ideas that I feel are needed in our field.
Ncautoshop, the problem wasn't that you hired an ASE tech that "couldn't find the door handle", its that ASE didn't do their job to verify that he/she had the experience for that certification.
If we as an industry don't start policing ourselves then we are no better than those hack shops you all complain about because we are allowing them to rip people off and repair vehicles incorrectly or incompletely.
This is just my opinion. One born of being in an industry for over 40 years and watching as the vehicles get smarter and more complex and the people that are responsible for maintaining and repairing them are falling further and further behind.
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I agree!Ok , I guess I need to clarify myself. I am not advocating for ASE certifications. On the contrary, I think they are a large part of the problem, as is AAI, UTI, MMI, WIO-TECH, ITT TECH and a host of other so called schools that take peoples money and don't provide what was paid for. Thats a whole other tirade for a different post.
What I had in mind was a system that Rhode Island uses to license electricians. It is an associates degree earned through a local accredited school. The person usually goes to night school and has to complete 2000 hours of apprentorship under a licensed electrician. After successfully completing the schooling and the 2000 hours they are awarded a journeyman license. That person has to complete yearly continuing education requirements or lose his license.
If we were to use a system like this , as an employer you would know that the person applying for a job had at least some basic knowledge and experience.
As for shop licensing how about minimum requirements for insurance, required equipment for doing certain repairs and minimum schooling for the techs that work there.
These are some of the basic ideas that I feel are needed in our field.
Ncautoshop, the problem wasn't that you hired an ASE tech that "couldn't find the door handle", its that ASE didn't do their job to verify that he/she had the experience for that certification.
If we as an industry don't start policing ourselves then we are no better than those hack shops you all complain about because we are allowing them to rip people off and repair vehicles incorrectly or incompletely.
This is just my opinion. One born of being in an industry for over 40 years and watching as the vehicles get smarter and more complex and the people that are responsible for maintaining and repairing them are falling further and further behind.
But in my case the tech was seasoned and well experienced - he had personal issues and fell off the wagon.
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- 4 weeks later...
Trust me, the customers learn pretty quick who's who. Everyone's an "expert" when they are selling themselves. I used to stress about the incompetent wood butchers opening up all around bragging of $25/hr ads but paying customers learn fast that they didn't save anything by having uninsured dirt bag low bidder hacks replace unneeded parts. Stupid equals expensive. State licensing doesn't solve anything they just take your money.
I must disagree that ASE Techs can be ignorant about cars. There's no way to cheat and the tests are pretty hard for a hack to pass. There are techs that claim to be certified but are just liars. You can check on the ASE site. I also know many excellent techs that aren't certified in anything. I haven't found a master tech yet that didn't know how to properly fix a car. Slow, lazy, and/or sloppy maybe but they all knew the right way to do things.
Edited by alfredautoPremium Member Content
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...........I haven't found a master tech yet that didn't know how to properly fix a car. Slow, lazy, and/or sloppy maybe but they all knew the right way to do things.[/quote.]
You nailed it here although I would add I have had a couple of Master Techs that the problem was substance abuse.
That's where I was going with my comments. They were once upon a time great techs, but life had taken its toll on them.
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I feel I'm outside the box on this one. My shop is more custom that does general repair. I was an industrial electrician for 22 years. The last 14 in supervision. I went from apprentice to General Foreman before stepping down so I can relate to the electrician references from earlier. Now in 22 years I never licensed. Why, Well most of the time I was traveling the country doing construction or shut downs. Refineries, gold mines, Paper mills, etc... License in Florida then head to Texas No point.
What I am getting at is, I have worked a lot of people all over the country. Some licensed and some not. There is no one size fits all license to guarantee a techs abilities on the job, electrical or automotive. One thing electrical has over ASE is a hands on portion of the test. Now the guy that aces the code book portion and barely squeaks by the practical and hands on, has the same license as the guy that did well in 1 of the other 2 areas. Do we agree so far?
Which one is the better employee? Same State license but different strong points. How do we rate these guys?
Now will an ASE test produce better techs? I doubt it. Everyone has there strong and weak points. Some very smart people just do not test well. Einstein had trouble finding his way home. I used to work a guy we called "1 off" Good at diag but every time he grabbed a wrench......... He was 1 size off from the right wrench. What about the guy that just kills it with tools but lacks the diag skills?
So should we hold everyone to the same standards? If so then ASE should have more than just a written test.
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ASE is total bullshit. You give me a couple of days working for me and I will tell if you are good enough or should be delivering pizza.
I too was ASE master tech, but I was also young and stupid.
I've always liked the idea of certifications, but I agree that they are not necessary when it comes to doing quality work AND that some guys are basically paper pushing - test taking geniuses that don't have a clue what to do when it comes to diagnostics or having a wrench in their hands.
My general thought on this has always been to rate the repair shop as well as the tech. Say an A-B-C-D rating system. Right smack on the front door would be a white sign with a black letter showing the graded/evaluation of that particular repair shop. Each shop can raise or lower their rating based on the quality of work and equipment as well as their technicians skill levels. The rating system could also dictate the highest labor per hour each rating could charge.
It's not a perfect idea but, this would allow the consumer to decide where they want to go instead of the usual, "I went here, then here, and then over there and nobody knows how to fix my car." If they went to a D shop that has nothing more than a code reader and OUIJA board to diagnose cars they can't blame anybody but themselves for only getting what they paid for.
How do you rate a shop? Simple, we do it. We as in the shop owners and technicians. Or, some sort of secret shopper deal. Take an older tech and give them the task of checking out shops. I personally like the idea of us governing us.
thoughts???
These ideas always sound great in theory. But do you really want some college grad, that couldn't make it in the real world so he went to work for the state, passing judgement on your shop? All this would do is raise the cost of doing business. Lets be real, the people who go to the shade tree guys aren't the customers you want. Let them go and don't lose sleep on them. Focus on the customers who see the value in what you do for a living. There's plenty of cars for everybody.
You want better techs, train them to be better techs. Our newest tech I hired with zero mechanical experience and we trained him with my A tech for 6 months. He's a solid B tech and I have no doubt he'll be a great A tech. 100% in house trained. We've hired UTI and Wyotech grads and they never last. They come out of school with a lot of debt and are qualified to change oil. But they expect big bucks. I have a UTI grad now and I believe the only reason he thrived is the fact he apprenticed with us while he was still in High School. You have to have some form of in house training.
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OMG, we need to improve the species. Training & certification is the only way. I have been an ASE master since the beginning & I am proud of that.
I am disappointed when so many perspective techs apply & admit they have NO training or certification. I can not hire them & wait to see if they know the basics,
that's crazy to wait to see if they screw up repairs then fix them yourself. It is up to us to improve techs & turn a profit while doing it.
We as shop owners should be encouraging certification & training, even online FREE training that there are tons. Check out iATN you could read for days with professional training.
I am NAPA Autocare, Bosch Car Service & AAA approved & they ALL REQUIRE ASE certification. I believe it helps get customers.
Dave
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We're also a Napa Autocare - long story short we had a warranty job go to another autocare shop and the technician guessed his whole way through the job, tossed parts and refused assistance when offered. Point is associations and certifications only go so far. Training, we require it for our employees but if their not willing to learn it doesn't so any good!OMG, we need to improve the species. Training & certification is the only way. I have been an ASE master since the beginning & I am proud of that.
I am disappointed when so many perspective techs apply & admit they have NO training or certification. I can not hire them & wait to see if they know the basics,
that's crazy to wait to see if they screw up repairs then fix them yourself. It is up to us to improve techs & turn a profit while doing it.
We as shop owners should be encouraging certification & training, even online FREE training that there are tons. Check out iATN you could read for days with professional training.
I am NAPA Autocare, Bosch Car Service & AAA approved & they ALL REQUIRE ASE certification. I believe it helps get customers.
Dave
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The not willing to learn is a challenge.
I leave the trade magazines in the shop & I find very seldom do they get looked at so I make copies of the articles I think they need to read & hand them out.
Dave
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Have you checked out Joe's Latest Blog?
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By Joe Marconi in Joe's Blog5 commentsI recently spoke with a friend of mine who owns a large general repair shop in the Midwest. His father founded the business in 1975. He was telling me that although he’s busy, he’s also very frustrated. When I probed him more about his frustrations, he said that it’s hard to find qualified technicians. My friend employs four technicians and is looking to hire two more. I then asked him, “How long does a technician last working for you.” He looked puzzled and replied, “I never really thought about that, but I can tell that except for one tech, most technicians don’t last working for me longer than a few years.”
Judging from personal experience as a shop owner and from what I know about the auto repair industry, I can tell you that other than a few exceptions, the turnover rate for technicians in our industry is too high. This makes me think, do we have a technician shortage or a retention problem? Have we done the best we can over the decades to provide great pay plans, benefits packages, great work environments, and the right culture to ensure that the techs we have stay with us?
Finding and hiring qualified automotive technicians is not a new phenomenon. This problem has been around for as long as I can remember. While we do need to attract people to our industry and provide the necessary training and mentorship, we also need to focus on retention. Having a revolving door and needing to hire techs every few years or so costs your company money. Big money! And that revolving door may be a sign of an even bigger issue: poor leadership, and poor employee management skills.
Here’s one more thing to consider, for the most part, technicians don’t leave one job to start a new career, they leave one shop as a technician to become a technician at another shop. The reasons why they leave can be debated, but there is one fact that we cannot deny, people don’t quit the company they work for, they usually leave because of the boss or manager they work for.
Put yourselves in the shoes of your employees. Do you have a workplace that communicates, “We appreciate you and want you to stay!”
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Thanks to our Partner, NAPA TRACS and AutoFix Auto Shop Coaching Dive into the intricate process behind the Automotive Service Excellence (ASE) certification exams. Sharing personal experiences as SMEs for the ASE exams, the panelists discussed the challenges and learning opportunities involved in the process. Matt Fanslow, Riverside Automotive, Red Wing, MN, Diagnosing the Aftermarket A to Z Podcast Bryan Pollock, Willco Auto Care, Sanborn, NY and Lockport, NY Scot Manna, ACDelco Technician of the Millennium. Scot’s previous episodes HERE.
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By carmcapriotto
Can a break-up be the catalyst for an entrepreneurial leap? Find out during Shawn Gilfillan's 20 questions in 30 minutes episode! Shawn also discusses the importance of a strong business culture, mentorship, and the joy of hobbies like aviation. Shawn shares strategies for managing gross margins and the significance of client experience. Shawn Gilfillan, Automotive Magic, Kenvil and Lake Hopatcong, NJ. Shawn’s previous episodes HERE Show Notes
Automotive Magic (00:00:17) Shawn Gilfillan discusses the founding of Automotive Magic on April Fool's Day in 2003. Life Calibration (00:00:41) Shawn talks about his work with Chris Lawson and the high-performance team coaching program at Life Calibration. Life Calibration: From Burnout to Balance [THA 348]: https://remarkableresults.biz/remarkable-results-radio-podcast/a348/ Mentorship and Self-Development (00:04:54) Shawn discusses the impact of mentors and self-development in his journey as a shop owner. Hobbies (00:06:10) Shawn talks about his hobbies, including aviation. Motivation and Business Culture (00:07:46) Shawn shares his motivation for getting up in the morning and discusses how he creates opportunities for others to thrive and elevates their performance. Advice and Fear (00:11:49) Shawn shares advice on overcoming fear and empowering employees as an owner/CEO. Book Recommendation (00:13:13) Shawn recommends "Hero on a Mission" by Donald Miller and discusses its impact on his perspective as a business owner. Building Business Culture (00:14:50) Shawn discusses the challenges and importance of building a strong business culture from the top down. Culture and Team Dynamics (00:15:40) Discussion on creating a positive work culture and building a cohesive team. Leadership and Vision (00:16:29) The importance of establishing a vision and values from the start, and involving the team in maintaining the culture. Client Experience and Relationship Building (00:19:36) Strategies for understanding and meeting client needs, and building strong client relationships. Adaptability and Change (00:20:47) The significance of embracing change and adapting to business challenges. Leadership Crisis and Team Support (00:21:00) Dealing with unexpected managerial crises and the importance of team support. Personal Development and Skills (00:23:14) The desire for new skills and personal development, such as learning magic tricks. Business Management and Gross Margin (00:24:14) Strategies for managing gross margin and keeping front-end operations efficient. Car Count and Scheduling (00:25:35) Strategies for managing car count, scheduling, and maintaining workflow in the shop. Future Reservations and Client Commitment (00:27:21) The importance of setting future reservations and ensuring client commitment to scheduled appointments. Leadership Communication (00:29:17) Encouraging a shift in language and communication to emphasize the importance of future reservations. Hiring and Relationships (00:30:12) Discussion on hiring and relationships in the workplace, including the impact of personal relationships on work performance. Dream Car (00:31:37) Shawn's dream car and the enjoyment he derives from it. Opening a New Shop (00:32:11) The three important needs for opening a new shop: location, good people, and effective marketing. Marketing Strategy (00:32:33) The success of giving away the first hundred oil changes for free as a marketing strategy. Firing a Customer (00:33:52) A recent incident of firing a customer due to their attitude and behavior at the shop.
Thanks to our Partner, NAPA Auto Care Learn more about NAPA Auto Care and the benefits of being part of the NAPA family by visiting https://www.napaonline.com/en/auto-care Connect with the Podcast: -Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/RemarkableResultsRadioPodcast/ -Subscribe on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/carmcapriotto -Follow on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/carmcapriotto/ -Follow on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/remarkableresultsradiopodcast/ -Follow on Twitter: https://twitter.com/RResultsBiz -Visit the Website: https://remarkableresults.biz/ -Join our Insider List: https://remarkableresults.biz/insider -All books mentioned on our podcasts: https://remarkableresults.biz/books -Our Classroom page for personal or team learning: https://remarkableresults.biz/classroom -Buy Me a Coffee: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/carm -The Aftermarket Radio Network: https://aftermarketradionetwork.com -Special episode collections: https://remarkableresults.biz/collections
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Gonzo
You're right Jeff. There is not a day that goes by that somebody will call me about something they've watched on You Tube. Some are good info, while others are very questionable. The last one was a guy who wanted me to change out his TIPM because his truck would cut out every couple of miles. I said no to that and I would only change it after I've tested it. He wasn't going for that. His opinion was it should only take a few minutes to get it done and testing was a useless waste of his money.
To me, that shows a lack of respect for the profession that I've spent my lifetime at. You show me and my trade respect and I'll show you the same. If not, learn to hitchhike....
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Jeff
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